Nov 272009
A tribute to Baha’i artists around the world … Bahai artists music Baha’i
A tribute to Baha’i artists around the world … Bahai artists music Baha’i
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Song – Proclaim His Name
Singer – Dan Seals
Please give me the name of the song together with with the singer. I love the song.
This is a lot easier. Why write if you can watch them shoot themselves in the foot:
/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&feature=related
@fctchk – Now, I have been in dozens of discussions like this, where people have cited the exact same things that you did, and despite the fact that I showed them the other verses which explained them in full, instead of acknowledging that they changed the subject to a different verse and the process had to be repeated again, with nothing learned.
Why do you think that is? They do not acknowledge that they had not investigated that point thoroughly, and will probably use it again. Why is that?
@fctchk – the interesting thing about this is that you didn’t even need to read the whole Sura to see most of these, just the verses right next to them in most cases.
If you hadn’t read those verses, then you clearly hadn’t read the whole Sura, which means you clearly didn’t read the whole Qur’an. So why are you telling me what the Quran supposedly says when you don’t even know what the thing that you’re quoting says?
This is the palpable difference between investigating and ad-hoc justifying.
@fctchk – You also cite 8:12, when the verses 13 and 15 cite the “marshalled hosts” gathered in opposition (Rodwell) and as I have already cited, Muslims were forbidden from beginning hostilities.
You could argue that that’s just an excuse to kill them all once they start fighting, except you also cited the ninth Sura, which states:
“And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection, then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety.”
@fctchk – You cite the 9th and second suras, but have you read them? I would like to cite some things from those particular suras as well (I shall use the Rodwell and Pickthall translations if that is acceptable to you, but I do have others at my disposal)
You cite 2:191 but did you cite 2:190?
“Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”
@fctchk – I say “misquoted” and “poorly translated” as the Shakir, Malik, Rodwell, Yusuf Ali, Sale, Palmer, and Pickthall translations all conflict with them.
I say “out of context” because you cite such things as 9:5 out of context with even the whole of that ayat, let alone 9:4 which explains immediately beforehand that it is not referring to those among the unbelievers who have kept their alliances and in no way attacked or aided anyone against Muslims, just as one example.
“Gambit” indeed
الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّوا سَبِيلَهُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ
فَإِذَا انْسَلَخَ الْأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدْتُمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ
وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُوا لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ ۚ فَإِنْ تَابُوا وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَآتَوُا
Ah yes, the classic “misquoted”, “out of context” and “poorly translated” gambit. Breathtaking, though entirely predictable, the dispatch with which you trotted it out.
Oblige me then, and provide a “proper” translation or recommend one that you approve; I too tend to prefer original texts.
Let’s start with,say, Surah Q9:5 one you “especially” reference:
@fctchk – I like how some of those are incredibly misquoted, and all of them are entirely out of context and poorly translated.
Especially with the ninth and second suras all you’d need to do is look at the verse right before and after to render the point entirely moot. Go ahead, look for yourself.
If you’d like to talk about Islam and the Quran I can surely oblige you, I actually read the book itself and not just snippets from anti-Islam sites.
@fctchk – You’re doing well if your goal was to display that when confronted with your ignorance you use the argumentum ad ridiculum fallacy to try and cover for it.
Quit dodging the point. If you claim to know that my faith is wrong, I’d like to hear your actual basis, not just a prejudice that you’ve developed about religious people in general.
For someone who emphasizes facts and knowledge as the basis of belief, I’d like to see yours. Produce it.
Even without knowing what your faith is I can postulate its basis extrapolating from general observations on religions.
It has one or more “prophets” most likely wearing a beard (this signals “wisdom” to the bleating flock) and definitely male because their particular god doesn’t give dispensations to women (inferior beings).
They proclaim to have gotten the content of their preachments directly from their god. The only real god, of course, and the only true word.
How am I doing so far?
But it sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo IS Islam:
Quran 8:12: Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers
Q2:191: Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them
Q8:12: Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes
Q4:89: Take not infidels as friends until they fly in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them
Q9:5: Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them
@fctchk – I didn’t copy and paste that at all, those are in fact my words.
And you seem to have mistaken the notion of something being within a “sphere” and that thing being spherical itself. Intentionally or otherwise I do not know, but dismiss neither.
@fctchk – the American legal system is hardly the measure for determining spiritual and philosophical truth. But suffice it to say I feel I have found proof beyond a reasonable doubt of this faith.
So you say all faiths are baseless in their claims, that would imply you are familiar with those claims and the logic behind them. Alright, disprove to me the basis of my faith, if you supposedly know it.
@fctchk – “Silent” majority? If you look on YouTube about half the videos about it will say “These people are evil this is NOT Islam!” I’ve seen rallies, protests, hell Pakistan is even fighting a war over it. Even Ayatollah Khamenei, who usually is the first to advocate anti-America stuff, took time specifically to condemn the 9/11 attacks.
It’s not really silent at all, you’re just not listening.
Fctchk like I said if somone wants to worship whatever God they want to worship then that is there business. Instead of going on youtube trashing everyone for having a religion get a life! And I mean that with all do respect and not to insult you. Have a nice day.
PJD “It displays the separate distinctions of the Sun, the Moon, and the other stars”. “Separate distinctions”?!? Did something get separated during your copy and paste? LOL
“Most notably that the Sun is fixed within its sphere, ” Actually, the sun neither is “fixed within its sphere” nor is it even a sphere. It spins on its axis and even has its very own orbit, imagine that.
Stay away from religions if you want factual info on nature (or anything else for that matter)
PJD All religions are founded on faith based truth claims devoid of any evidence that would survive scientific scrutiny much less be admissible in a court of law. (unless we’re talking Sharia and it’d be a safe guess that that’s something you don’t want to be subject to)
PJD Let’s not get too self-congratulatory about it only being a tiny (proportionally microscopic -in fact) minority. The 1 billion Muslim world wide silent majority enables the savages by:
A. Just that -being silent. B. Not rejecting the Quran, which in fact instructs its followers to take out infidels which, by the way, the majority doesn’t do, ironically making them bad Muslims.
The Nazis, the Mullahs, the Bush regime etc. all tiny minorities catastrophically enabled by cretinous masses.
nishaboston
Thanks for your kind advice. It was especially helpful in revealing exactly the basis on which you and millions of other logic challenged people base their choice of Mind Addling Myths To Blindly Follow (religion): It’s all about whether you like it or not.
Whether it might even remotely conceivably be true is a consideration that never even enters the picture. And indeed how could it, absent the reasoning capacity to discern truth from falsehood?
@fctchk who cares if you do not like religion then don’t search youtube and watch videos..
@fctchk – and what’s more, you speak (truthfully, and I thank you for that) of the tiny minority of people within Islam who are violent and intolerant, but let me ask you, do individuals such as Joseph Mengele mean that all science is invalidated?
The point is, guilt by association is a fallacious assertion, as is argumentum ad populum. Therefore, generally speaking, neither “both” or “a majority of” discussing adherents are really valid arguments in the discussion of a faith’s validity.